Monday, October 19, 2009

Rape in the Bible

Again EB starts off an article with the claim that the Bible condones raping women. The writer presumes to think for its readers, entering in opinions about just how bad of a crime rape really is. It says "How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape escapes me." Now, after butchering the English language, it again attacks the Bible using its own opinions, that the Bible condones rape, without looking at the actual text. Again it fails to realize that the Bible frequently tells stories of the Israelites' wrongful acts, but that by no means shows that the Bible is condoning what they are doing. Let's take at look at their so-called "examples":

1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-Gilead (Judges 21. 10-24): First off I would like to ask a simple question: Where was the rape? It never says it outright in the verse, and therefore requires some very large assumptions from EvilBible in order to make this work for them, which they do without a thought. EB uses this syllogism: "The virgin's relatives were killed. The men who killed them took the virgins in. They got married, so it must have been equivalent to rape (notice EB also assumes the marriage was forced)" Syllogisms do not contain perfect logic, for example "fish can swim. I can swim. I must be a fish." Therefore, there is no reason to believe that this actually contained rape, let alone repeatedly. There were even regulations for how to deal with said regulation. Give them a peace offer (Deut 20.10-14). This verse even goes on to show how war captives were to be treated, as follows:
  1. Provide them with housing (taking them in)
  2. Allowing them 1 month to mourn.
  3. Then allow marriage
  4. If they divorce, no mistreatment.

Where's the rape? You should know by now.

2) Murder, rape, and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31.7-18): Almost the same thing as above. Again, they say "Clearly Moses approves of rape of virgins". Apparently EB sees the word virgin and immediately thinks rape. Rape, or even sex, is never mentioned in the entire verse. The process above still applies, as well.

3) More murder, rape, and pillage (Deuteronomy 20.10-14): Let's make a little checklist, shall we?

  • Murder: This is war, and peace was rejected, God even commanded to offer peace.

  • Rape: Still only says as much as the above two, rape's been inserted by EB.

  • Slavery: The word that here was translated as forced slavery can also be translated to simply mean work, which here could easily be a form of indentured servitude. Also, I already talked about how slavery in the Bible's time, not the same as America's early history: http://debunkedevil.blogspot.com/2009/10/slavery-in-bible.html

4) Laws of rape (Deut 22.28-29): Here Mariano was a great resource by providing the etymology of the verse. The word used here, translated as rape, is the Hebrew word shakab, meaning lying down. Taphas is the Hebrew word for catching, handling, taking hold, and isn't used. If you look at most other translations it merely says "a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he lays hold of her and lies with her." Where in the verse does it say the intercourse was forced? The verse even ends with "and they were found". It doesn't say he was caught, THEY were caught. This shows that they were engaging in fornication, not rape. This made them have to get married because the woman was not even previously betrothed.

5) Death to the rape victim (Deut. 22. 23-24): Here it is interesting to note than EB has been citing the NLT, and now switches to the NAB for the remainder of the article. The NLT's verse is even farther away from citing rape, while the NAB is closer, and therefore suits EB's purpose, deliberate misinterpretation, better. The NLT says "suppose a man meets a young woman, a virgin engaged to a man, and has sexual intercourse with her..." Again, no rape. This is fornication, and both are punished for it. They cannot get married like #4 because she is already engaged, so they must be punished, and God has rules set for that. Also, there is a part EB conveniently left out in the very next verse. It says "But if the man meets the engaged woman out in the country, and he rapes her, than only the man must die." Sound like condoning rape to you?

Also, for those who would point out the "but" to mean it meant it in the first part as well, literal translations of the first one say "but she did not cry out", and in the countryside crying out is far less likely to help at all. This shows that the woman was in fact raped, while if she didn't cry out people would know it wasn't rape.

6) David's punishment- Polygamy, rape, baby killing, and God's "forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12. 11-14): To start God is punishing David for polygamy and adultery, so condoning that is out of the question. Deuteronomy 17:15, 17 says: "You shall set a king over you...He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray." Let's try another checklist:

  • Rape: Absent. Lying with the neighbor is his wives committing adultery, no rape.

  • Polygamy: Present. God punished David for it.

  • Baby Killing: Present. God judged David because David had made followers of God look like hypocrites for committing adultery with Bathsheba. Capital punishment, explained here: www.debunkedevil.blogspot.com/2009/10/murder-in-bible.html

  • Forgiveness: Present. The punishment for adultery is death, but God forgave David. Funny thing is, for EB this should be a bad thing.

7) Rape of female captives (Deut 21. 10-14): This was cited earlier in order to show that there wasn't rape, see the process at the end of #1. The process showed that they must be married in order to have sexual relations. None of this was forced, including the marriage. There's not rape, once again EB inserts a very disturbing misinterpretation.

8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5. 30): Again there is rape inserted by EB's author. None actually in the verse. A girl for each man means as a slave, not a sex slave. Furthermore, this was actually a lyrical poem sang by Deborah, not meant to be interpreted literally like has been by EB.

9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21. 7-11): I have already dealt with this in my slavery post: www.debunkedevil.blogspot.com/2009/10/slavery-in-bible.html. A quick refresher, this never says sex anywhere, nor implies it. These were laws handling the treatment of female slaves, nothing more. It even states that a man may marry her to one of his sons. This must occur for any sex; otherwise it would be fornication, which the Bible is patently against. Women were sold into slavery by their families or willingly went in order to pay off debts that they owed, which was more like indentured slavery, a term that didn't exist at the time. Apparently EB sees "woman" and "slave" and immediately thinks "sex slave".

10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 12:1-2): Again EB takes a verse out of context, and those who use biblegateway.com or another such site in reference to this (Good idea, by the way), pull up just one more verse after this. It reads: "Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against these nations". Another translation of verse one "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh." This verse has Israel being defeated for turning away from God, and then God will come to redeem them. The rape described here is the disgusting acts of other nations, and God punishes them for it when he redeems Israel. Hardly condoning rape.

Conclusion: Thus ends Evilbible.com's unfounded rant about the Bible condoning rape. It should be known by now that it clearly doesn't, in fact just the opposite. There is a clear difference between it being in the Bible, and the Bible condoning it. Also, massive assumptions aren't acceptable as evidence. It doesn't explicitly say rape in 90% of these verses, that part is inserted. It helps to understand the slavery side of this as well, so check it out. My link was posted in one of the answers above. Thanks!

My friend Mariano also has a thing or two to say about this, in a more detailed way than I: http://atheismisdead.blogspot.com/2009/04/atheism-bible-rape-evilbiblecom-and-dan.html
and for another perspective:
http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/99778.qna/category/ot/page/questions/site/
About fornication:
http://www.bible.ca/s-premarital-sex.htm

73 comments:

  1. 6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

    Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
    Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]

    This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick! debunk this you bible toting fanatic

    or this.


    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

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    1. I am a women who has been raped. DONT YOU DARE CALL MY GOD A PATHETIC LOSER.

      (btw... no one is completely innocent. "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD" (Romans 3:23))

      ... but that aside. GOD, as an all mighty and perfect being, loves us too much to be around our sins, in this way he is actually sparing us from the horrifying, supernatural, self-afflicted torcher that comes when a sinner is in the presence of God. Before the NEW COVENANT that is made in JESUS's BLOOD, God could not stop sinners from going through this torcher because although he was NOT causing the torcher, the fact that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23), and that debt caused by our sins that had been building up since the time of the fall had not been paid. People had no other choice but death because of mankind's choice in the garden of Eden.

      HOWEVER GOD IS SO MERCIFUL AND LOVING that he made a NEW COVENANT by sending Jesus, God in the flesh, to be torchered and die in place of all of us in order to relieve us of our debts. Romans 6:23, (the full verse) reads: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our LORD." In this new covenant all who believe and are in a relationship with Jesus can live a life full of the joy of the LORD and go to heaven.

      You might ask, if I'm a Christian then why did something as bad as rape happen to me? God gives us free will, that means that we have the ability to choose against him. The man who raped me chose against God. HOWEVER, GOD IS GOOD! I have been healed, and I use my testimony to advance His Kingdom because I know His truth and live a life full of the joy that comes with His truth.

      Sadly, although we have joy in Chris,t that doesn't mean that we will live a perfect, peaceful life because this world is full of sin, however, Jesus gives us this assuring promise, "In this world you will have trouble, but take heart I (Jesus) have overcome the world" (John 16:33)

      God Bless you Anonymous. Feel free to comment back!

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    2. Thank u Natalie! God bless u for ur courage n faith! Yes,again, lie with does not mean forced!this seemsto be retribution for taking another mans wife. And his judgement for adultery n having a man killed was he lost the child; but David knew he wd see him again!He said he can't return to me,bt I will go to him! AlsoJesus is the God of bible, the same yesterday, today, n 4ever! ..Sue

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    3. Your god if he is real is quite pathetic and less moral than most humans including yourself. He is inept in nearly every category and condones or permits the most heinous of violence against others. The bible is far from a good book and even farther from being a history book.

      Remember that rape? God favored the free will of your rapist more than your will not to be raped...

      Is god willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is impotent.
      Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
      Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
      Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?

      ~Epicurus

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    4. Hate to be the one to call this.. but if your rapist paid off your father.. you'd be ok with being forced to marry him?

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    5. David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

      The "wives" in question were concubines. Women who voluntarily enslaved and sold themselves to a man for his sexual pleasure.

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  2. Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, ""women ravished;"" half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

    please look at whats between "" ""

    oh and about the claim that the bible says you offer peace.
    As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

    forced labor..nice huh?

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    1. Socially (and spiritually) things were weird back then, but I encourage you to take a look at the New Testament. There you will find the writings of the New Covenant (that applies to us today).

      May God Bless and keep you! Feel free to comment back.

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    2. Did u read the chapter?This is armeggedon. Its war,and does God approve? No! It says the Lord (JESUS)will go forth and battle for them! He's feet will touch the mount of olives. This is his return! The antichrist is defeated here!.verse 12seems also to indicate Israel uses nuclear weapons on enemies!. . Sue

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  3. If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
    (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    maybe i should come over to your house and have some fun with your wife or daughter and then give you some money and take her to live me. isn't that what the bible wants. oh and i simply can't imagine how much fun the girls life would be, forced to live with a man who violated her, for the rest of her life.

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    1. Socially (and spiritually) things were weird back then, but I encourage you to take a look at the New Testament. There you will find the writings of the New Covenant (that applies to us today).

      May God Bless and keep you! Feel free to comment back.

      By the way... I am a woman who has been raped. So don't think I am just a silly Christian who doesn't see your point because I HAVE ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED THIS. (and let me tell you something... GOD IS STILL GOOD. that was not his will for my life but an unfortunate product of sin... and God has redeemed me through his own blood. (Jesus is God in the flesh) So yup! GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME!

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    2. SO,who wrote the new testament? Someone who wanted to make things look good? Throw a carpet over dirt?
      The testament should be left as is, there is NO NEW, this isn't the constitution written by man. This is suppose to be a message from god. It shouldn't be altered by man for ok purposes. lol

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    3. But it was a constitution written by man. Several men actually, starting around the 3rd century. Even the story of Exodus tells of the cult like nature of this religion. Foreigner raised by Natives, apart from, but near enough to, "his [moses] people".

      He can't reign, being a foreigner, so attempts to draw some sway by murdering an egyption. He comes back later and his own people fear him of murder, so he flees.

      He comes back later to "gather" his people, and preforms the same tricks the Egyptians do, ending with the genocide of the first born, in retaliation to the same done by the Egyptians. He gets some followers and leaves to preach.

      In his time, his "people" grow apart a bit, and so he gathers his closest, and murders the rest.

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    4. Boy, some people need to read that better! ...the. research that said give money to the father of the woman he layer with, that was not rape, it said if THEY are caught, they had sex not forced, then he must pay the father and make her his wife.

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  4. ... God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
    - James 1:13

    And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
    Abraham.
    - Genesis 22:1

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    1. Some time later God TESTED Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied.

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    2. True, true. God does not tempt people with evil (as James 1:13 states, ) however god never tempted Abraham. He tested his faith, not with evil, but to see how faithful Abraham was.

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    3. Yea... god tempted abraham with good things, like killing your son. Christianity is a cult of torture, just look at the story of jesus and the torture device that most christians display proudly.

      To see beauty in evil is one of the great achievements of religion.

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    4. But did his son die? NO.
      Jesus was tortured by man, not God. And of course not by God, since Jesus is the son of God. And Jesus agreed to do this because it was God's plan. For people to see that he really was the Son of God and so the world could realize that this is how they can be saved. And Christianity is not a 'cult' religion. I just read a story the other day about Christians protecting Muslims praying. Oh yeah, that's SOOO wrong. (Sarcasm). And now Jesus is much happier in heaven.
      Science explains HOW we're formed, religion explains WHY we're formed.

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    5. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/muslims-form-human-chain-pakistan_n_4057381.html

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  5. I'm here to debunk evilbible.com, but if you care to, email me these "contradictions" and I will promptly debunk them. These are completely out of context, and I'll show you how/why. The fact that I've debunked hundreds found on this website should tell you something about them.

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    1. Your "de-bunking" is a self-fulfilling manifestation that is true in your eyes and mind only. Just because you say-so does not make it so. I feel that you know it is a given the bible condones all forms of human depravity and suffering. That fact is such a burden upon your soul that you must suspend belief to create belief - which is, I might add, the very definition of religion.

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    2. @Rayed Darwish.......Why don't you quit spouting off and just take him up on his challenge? Are you afraid?

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    3. To Rayed Darwish, firstly the bible does not condone rape, you have completely misinterpreted the scriptures that you have quoted. The bible states clearly that a man who lays with a women in the country which would be like murder should be put to death that completely trashes your false idea of rape being condone in the bible. Do not confuse that acts of war committed by the israelites as though they were commandments from God. And as the author of the website showed there was no sex prior to marriage. God NEVER CONDONED RAPE. Your statements are absolutely nonsense and blasphemous.

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    4. TO Rayed Darwish.

      1. The bible does not condone any form of human depravity of suffering. I am sorry that you have probably been hurt, but believe me that was not God's will for your life, and if you take a look at the new testament you will come to know this. (This is coming from someone who has been hurt.. a lot... I have been raped. lol) but I can assure you that God is still good.

      2. I don't know why you are bringing religion into this. This conversation is not about religion. It is about God, and the relationship between God and people.

      Don't believe me? We are all taking our evidences out of the Bible. The bible, only has the word "religion" in it 6 times (NIV), but the Bible calls us to a loving relationship 686 times..

      3. The de-bunking is not "self-fulfilling" it is probably an effort to try to shed light on the truth for people like you, who deserve to know the truth and to have the joy that can only come from the LORD.

      May God bless and keep you. Feel free to comment back or email me. I will have this conversation with you lovingly. (I can't promise that for any of the above people who replied) lol

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  6. Ah. Thank you so much for writing this.

    That particular Zechariah passage was giving me quite the run around. It didn't make sense to me at all and I was getting very skeptical. You putting it in a fuller context helped a great deal and it just goes to show you how deceitful the antichrists can be.

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    1. Socially (and spiritually) things were weird back then, but I encourage you to take a look at the New Testament. There you will find the writings of the New Covenant (that applies to us today).

      May God Bless and keep you! Feel free to comment back.

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  7. Hmm...you are correct. One person quoted det. 22:23-24 as God justifying rape by paying the father 50 shekels of silver. I am reading the bible (it is actually verses 28-29, by the way), and it only states if a man were to lie with her. Nowhere dies it say rape or forcible sex.

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    1. The word "rape" is used in the New International Version, but not in the King Jame Version, so...

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    2. Well it certainly doesn't say if 'they' lay 'together', it never implies that any of these are choices made together. It's always the man doing something to the woman or "TAKING" the woman, never accepting the woman. If you haven't noticed the bible was completely written by men for men, it speaks to a male reader and it subjectively places women in a weak and dependent role. It never says anything like 'If thou is raped by a man, then thou must take that man to your father'. Women are just pets in religion with a debt to men. And the only time it ever uses "they" is when they are found and then all of a sudden the woman is included, now she's being acknowledged! In a time when a women were being brutally murdered, yes murdered for having sex outside of wedlock is it really that far fetched to suggest Mary most likely lied and made up a virgin conception and what better protection than a chosen one of God?

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    3. @ Dick Fletes ... does the word "They" really make that much of a difference? I would argue that it doesn't. If this really bothers you look up this passage in Hebrew and dissect it. (that was the language it was originally written in.)

      Ps. Please remember that socially (and spiritually) things were weird back then, but I encourage you to take a look at the New Testament. There you will find the writings of the New Covenant (that applies to us today).

      May God Bless and keep you! Feel free to comment back.

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    4. @Dick Fletes

      I also wanted to tell you that I am someone who understands just how serious and devastating rape is. I am a victim myself... but I can assure you that God is good all the time.

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    5. You Xtians are delusional. I have a degree in Comparative Religions (and one in psychology) and studied the bible in its original lanaguge of Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew with a Jesuit priest (for one)
      Natalie. Your rape DOES NOT MAKE YOUR BELIEF A FACT.I am sorry you went through it however. I was raped for 2 days, cut up the back,beaten severely and a gun held to my head in my own home. I am calling YOUR god a pathetic, POS, brutal bully. The reason has NOTHING too do with your rape or mine. It has to do with evidence. Stop throwing your rape in (many times on this thread) to play victim and throw it in people's faces as if because you(or I) were raped, their opinions are invalid. So typical of Theist. Such a self-centered religion.

      Indeed the bible does condone rape, ritual human sacrifice, sex slavery and slavery in general & murder. It does not matter that "socially and spiritually,things were different back then" It was different when Hitler killed Jews,when Pol Pot exterminated millions, when the Crusades took place and more. It STILL was not OK to murder, rape and have slaves. You guys try to play games with translation. That can go many way, like with the words Sheol(hell) the Greek word aionios(not aidios) meaning age-long and not everlasting, kolasin (dealing with hell, soul and time frames)the word Gehenna, the words towebhah or toebah in Hebrew dealing with homosexuality and abomination and the words possibly mistranslated to homosexual(which they had no culture or real work for) malakos and arsenokoites which was more temple prostitute (and much deeper meanings) all which change the meaning of what you believed.

      You all have an agenda. You have put many years and time into a belief you base your life on, and many of you have little to know knowledge or understanding what it actually says and means. You try to change your God to make him not such an immoral bully. You just can't come to terms with the facts that the bible ,indeed, is violent and often immoral. You could NOT follow Gods law as directed in the bible and not go to prison. That is because morals are not based on your god and his rules in the bible. I wish you folks would just get rid of most of the bible,that means you have to give up your anti gay and other dramas, and just go with the Christ Consciousness. All the Abrahamic religions are violent and bloodthirsty. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets." In Matthew 5: 18 it states, "... till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished..." Luke 16:17 says, "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." You do NOT get to cherry pick. The person who wrote Evil.bible did so because so many of you are hypocritical. You use it for ego and for self,to feel morally superior to others and that is just not OK. Maybe they were a bit harsh but dolls, they basically used your own bible and you are mad that they showed you parts that upset you. You wanted to ignore those parts. Own up to those parts and stop trying to make it something it is not.

      Natile- Using your rape to tell people they can't give their opinion is just repugnant. Please stop. The bible does condones rape and it states to kill the rape victim if they did not scream out or fight enough. Deuteronomy 22:23-24 & Deuteronomy 22:25-27 state to kill a vicitm. Numbers 31:15-18 speaks about "kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. " Basically, they state to kill the pregnant women and keep the others for yourself(as wives and slaves)

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  8. Where's the rape? Ummm...I don't think I see in the verses ANYthing that said these women had a choice of whether to be their wives or not. In case you're unaware, being a wife back then involved sex (much as it does now). And since they were taken against their will, when they are forced to wed, on their wedding night they were raped. Unless, of course, they actually liked the one they were with.

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    1. You are unquivocally correct. The mere fact that men assumed they could forcibly, without consent, take a women to be their wife is "rape". Remember, rape is the forcible application of fornication against the will of a non-consenting victim. Thus the Bible drips with the vile acceptance of rape.

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  9. The Bible condones genocide, murder, incest, animal sacrifice, HUMAN sacrifice, and slavery. If you can't see that then you're very much in denial. Unbelievable that any of you would attempt to make excuses for the evil acts committed in the Bible, all because these people say their god told them to do it.

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    1. You simply do not know what you are talking about.

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  10. The Hebrew culture had a very long courtship process that every single wedded couple had to undertake before marriage. That's a historical fact, so no woman would end up with a man she didn't choose to marry, whether by going through this courtship process or choosing to fornicate and having to marry as a result of it. In none of these situations were women forced without having done anything wrong.

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  11. In Judges 21:10-24, the women were kidnapped and forced to marry. Rape is a logical conclusion.

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  12. Connor R. Do you have a source for this claim?

    I think the fact that many young Jewish girls were given in their pre-teen years in arranged marriages belies the claim that they had a choice.

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  13. The following passage from Judges 21:10-24 reflects the forgery that is the bible: "They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead."

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  14. And in verse 25 of Judges 21 it says "In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in HIS OWN eyes". The Bible did not encourage this behavior.

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  15. I think you reason well. However, rape can be described as sexual relations with an unwilling partner. Why mention that the women who were taken captive were 'virgins' if breeding wasn't the purpose"

    Having sex with your captives today would be seen (implied rape) as rape, don't you think?

    In the case where a virgin fell "in love" with their captor today could only come about through Stockholm Syndrome. What other choice is there? Enlighten me.

    Frank

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    1. The captive women did not have a choice about being captive. They were P.O.W.s. They were not forced to marry, though. This was an option available to them.

      The fact that they were captured instead of killed was an act of mercy.

      These nations were being judged by God for extreme wickedness. God also punished Israel in this same way when they rebelled against Him. His judgement usually approached slowly and with much warning, because of His great mercy and patience.

      Delete
    2. is anyone going to read the NEW TESTAMENT!?!?!?!?!? there has been A NEW COVENANT made IN JESUS'S BLOOD! trust me.. it is important to make that distinction. read theNEW TESTAMENT and THEN read the OLD TESTAMENT IN LIGHT OF THE NEW COVENANT AND JESUS's TEACHINGS.

      IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

      Delete
  16. Is there any human behind this blog page or are you loathe simply to answer the indefensible?

    Frank

    ReplyDelete
  17. Judges 21:10-24
    New International Version (NIV)

    10 So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin. ” 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

    13 Then the whole assembly sent an offer of peace to the Benjamites at the rock of Rimmon. 14 So the Benjamites returned at that time and were given the women of Jabesh Gilead who had been spared. But there were not enough for all of them.

    15 The people grieved for Benjamin, because the Lord had made a gap in the tribes of Israel. 16 And the elders of the assembly said, “With the women of Benjamin destroyed, how shall we provide wives for the men who are left? 17 The Benjamite survivors must have heirs,” they said, “so that a tribe of Israel will not be wiped out. 18 We can’t give them our daughters as wives, since we Israelites have taken this oath: ‘Cursed be anyone who gives a wife to a Benjamite.’ 19 But look, there is the annual festival of the Lord in Shiloh, which lies north of Bethel , east of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem, and south of Lebonah.”

    20 So they (( THE ELDERS, NOT GOD)) instructed the Benjamites, saying, “Go and hide in the vineyards 21 and watch. When the young women of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, rush from the vineyards and each of you seize one of them to be your wife. Then return to the land of Benjamin. 22 When their fathers or brothers complain to us, we will say to them, ‘Do us the favor of helping them, because we did not get wives for them during the war. You will not be guilty of breaking your oath because you did not give your daughters to them.’”

    23 So that is what the Benjamites did. While the young women were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife. Then they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them.
    24 At that time the Israelites left that place and went home to their tribes and clans, each to his own inheritance.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I think your defense against rape in the bible fails, here is why:

    Deuteronomy 21:10-14
    10 "When you go out to battle against your enemies, and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take them away captive,
    11 and see among the captives a beautiful woman, and have a desire for her and would take her as a wife for yourself,
    12 then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails.
    13 "She shall also remove the clothes of her captivity and shall remain in your house, and mourn her father and mother a full month; and after that you may go in to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.
    14 "It shall be, if you are not pleased with her, then you shall let her go wherever she wishes; but you shall certainly not sell her for money, you shall not mistreat her, because you have humbled her.

    In v. 13, she is to mourn the death of her father and mother.

    Hebrew soldiers first barge into her house and slaughter her entire family, including any baby brothers (Numbers 31:17, kill all the male babies).
    Hebrew soldiers then kidnap her back to the Hebrew settlement.
    A Hebrew soldier finds her attractive and wants to marry her (v. 11).

    What are the odds that this woman, knowing Hebrew soldiers massacred her family, would have sex willingly with any such Hebrew soldier?

    How can you avoid the charge that Deuteronomy 21 authorizes rape, when you are totally incapable of demonstrating that any such female war captive would consent willingly to have sex with one of the army who killed her entire family?

    And if such female war captive, having endured the horrors of her family being massacred, DID consent, wouldn't you agree this was the result of Stockholm Syndrome, and thus NOT valid consent? In that rape, the existence of consent does nothing to defend against the accusation of rape. rexalldisengage, where the mail is warmer than warm.

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  30. As a woman who has been raped and is someone who has studied God's word. I can tell you that what evilbible.com says about rape (and everything else) is FALSE. I think it is pathetic that ridiculous claims were made such as the fact that "to take a wife" meant to rape a women and claim her. NOT TRUE AT ALL. In those days women did not have jobs and therefore had to be supported. The phrase "to take a wife" is the same as saying "to accept responsibility for a women" or "to take in a women" and in doing so make her a wife.

    Although what the people who run evilbible.com obviously do not do research before posting... and are simply doing it because they have probably been hurt by Christians in the past, and now feel the need to hurt back... We Christians need to remember to forgive them, pray for them, and turn the other cheek.

    To those who run evilbible.com.. I apologize on the behalf of any Christian who has ever hurt you, and I will be praying for you. Please know that the God that you are writing about LOVES you.
    also.. please do research in non-tainted sources. because your hermeneutic (way of interpreting the Bible) is incorrect.

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    1. i heard about stereotypes, but someone almost saying she's been raped in her every comment proved indefinitely..

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  34. Natalie,
    I won't say a word about the fact that you wrote: "(This is coming from someone who has been hurt.. a lot... I have been raped. lol)" LOL? Laugh Out Loud? Really? Seriously?

    Okay, aside from that disturbing comment, you keep, as a mantra, telling people to go to the New Testament or New Covenant, as if that makes anything in the Old Testament (Covenant) more tolerable. It doesn't. Jesus said, (Mathew 5:17) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

    Since heaven and earth are still here, I'm assuming the Old "Covenant" is still in full force and effect, unless you are arguing with your Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

    Let the stonings begin!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you're a complete fool, ceremony laws have been diminished and so was killing someone for their sins you fool, i suggest having a comprehension when you read a book which is the word of god, even if you read the bible you are blinded by secular world mind thinking, only through gods holy you can get a comprehension what is gods scope of each page of the bible and its purpose.

      if you look at proper history people were evil before christ and after christ and the leaders too.

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  40. Thank you for this. I'm so tired of people who are trying to say there is no God try to prove that by saying God of the Bible condones, rape, murder and slavery. It's getting ridiculous how many people are willing to put their soul on the line without studying the scriptures for themselves.

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